Knowledge of Milltronics Partner 1 VMCs

It seems there hasn't been much discussion on these in the last fee years, so I couldn't find answers to a few questions that came to mind.

How is the Centurion 5 or 6 control to program?

Is it similar to another control? I've only used Centroid and a small bit of Okuma OSP.

Can they be drip fed?

Do they have linear or box ways?

Can they have rigid tapping?

Were they very rigid or accurate?

Are they very serviceable any more?

Thanks

Jay

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Jay Fleming said:

It seems there hasn't been much discussion on these in the last fee years, so I couldn't find answers to a few questions that came to mind.

How is the Centurion 5 or 6 control to program?

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I've had a few Milltronics machines over the years, including a couple of Partner I's. I like the Centurion 5/6 control. The UI is basically the same on both. The main difference is the hardware. The G-code is pretty close to standard Fanuc. I mostly use CAM to write programs, but they have nice conversational programming for simple stuff.

Jay Fleming said:

Can they be drip fed?

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I know the Centurion 6 can be drip fed, I don't remember if the 5 had that capability.

Jay Fleming said:

Do they have linear or box ways?

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Linear

Jay Fleming said:

Can they have rigid tapping?

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Rigid tapping was an option. I had it added to a machine that we had purchased used. They basically had to add a spindle encoder and change a parameter.

Jay Fleming said:

Were they very rigid or accurate?

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Rigidity was the main problem with these machines. They have relatively light castings and have light linear ways. I think they are comparable to Haas machines from the same era. (Which is not a good thing.)

Accuracy will depend on machine condition. These were never meant to be high precision machines. They were commodity VMCs like Haas or Fadal. Not top-of-the-line like Mori or Matsuura.

Jay Fleming said:

Are they very serviceable any more?

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The Centurion 5 Control is based on a 386 PC. Parts are no longer available. If you lose a board in that control you will have upgrade to the Single board PC that is on the Centurion 6 control. I believe the Centurion 6 is still supported. (Last I knew it still was.)

There were issues with the 12 tool tool-changers that were on most of those Partner 1s. Definitely make sure that works before writing any checks.

As far as mechanical parts go, it would probably be best to call Milltronics. They have always been very helpful when I had questions.

I've always had good service on my Milltronics machines from KM Industrial in Kalamazoo. I don't know what service is like in OK.


To sum up: The control is nice. The iron is light. If you find one in good condition it's an OK machine. If it's in bad shape I would avoid it.

-Aaron

Centurion V can be drip fed, I've done it on mine. I have the Partner 4, which is a knee mill... stout as far as knee mills go, but mine is a 1992 and was rode hard and put up wet before I got it. It still does what I need it to do and I find the control easy to program and work with, basically uses Fanuc G-code with a few different codes.

I can say parts for the older machines from Milltronics are starting to get very hit and miss, but they used pretty much off the shelf components that you can source from many different places.

The Partner 5 can be drip fed. As I too, did it on my old one.
They are commodity machines. Keep your expectations at that level, and you won't be disappointed.
The control was easy to navigate.....
Milltronics was always nice to deal with, on the technical side of things. I had no problems with their customer service.

Doug.

Thank you all for the responses. I've got my eye on a few on Ebay for less than $5k, which would be very nice for my budget. The size and weight would be good for the shop and I see that's where some of the rigidity is sacrificed. I'm sure any of them would be better than my CNC knee mill for productivity, although the 6 tool ATC on a few of them is less than stellar.

I really like Milltronics. Their service is top notch. Most of the time you call them and if they don't pick up, you have a return phone call within an hour and these guys know the machine inside and out as many of them have been involved in the assembly in Minnesota. I have had two Centurion V controls upgraded for around 3k and that really helped with the processing of the 3D toolpaths. The older machines are a little light in the loafers, but some of the newer machines weigh around 20K.

Paraphrasing:

red beard said:

Added rigid tapping to the machine

Problems with 12 tool changer

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Is the spindle speed accurate enough to T/C tap?

What are the issues with the tool changer? I read the 6 tool changers had problems as well.

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Brian said:

Centurion V can be drip fed, I've done it on mine. I have the Partner 4, which is a knee mill... stout as far as knee mills go, but mine is a 1992 and was rode hard and put up wet before I got it. It still does what I need it to do and I find the control easy to program and work with, basically uses Fanuc G-code with a few different codes.

I can say parts for the older machines from Milltronics are starting to get very hit and miss, but they used pretty much off the shelf components that you can source from many different places.

Click to expand...

Are you Brian L at the "other place"? If so, I saw a few of your posts about the Partner and you shared a few videos. I only watched the two you posted but I'll check out the others.

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Jay Fleming said:

Are you Brian L at the "other place"? If so, I saw a few of your posts about the Partner and you shared a few videos. I only watched the two you posted but I'll check out the others.

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Yea Jay, Brian is pretty forthcoming with his is knowledge of the Milltronics machines.
He is, and has, helped me with mine. Along with some other great people there.
Dave

Milltronics is now part of Hurco

Jay Fleming said:

Paraphrasing:


Is the spindle speed accurate enough to T/C tap?

What are the issues with the tool changer? I read the 6 tool changers had problems as well.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Yes, I used to tap on the old Partner I's that we had using a T/C tap holder.

The tool changers on those machines were not a very good design. Most umbrella-style tool changers have rails on which the whole assembly slides to and from the spindle. On those Milltronics 12 tool changers the assembly is on a hinge to swing over to the spindle. Even when in good condition those tool changers had pretty jerky movements.

Due to the angle at which the pneumatic cylinder is mounted, it has a lot more leverage at the point where it is extended than at it's resting position. Because of this, it is hard to control the speed of the tool changer movement.

As that hinge and the cylinder that moves the assembly wears, it gets even more jerky, sometimes to the point where it jerks so much that the fingers can't retain the tool and it throws the tool out of the tool changer. We also had issues with the assembly drooping as that hinge wore.

red beard said:

Yes, I used to tap on the old Partner I's that we had using a T/C tap holder.

The tool changers on those machines were not a very good design. Most umbrella-style tool changers have rails on which the whole assembly slides to and from the spindle. On those Milltronics 12 tool changers the assembly is on a hinge to swing over to the spindle. Even when in good condition those tool changers had pretty jerky movements.

Due to the angle at which the pneumatic cylinder is mounted, it has a lot more leverage at the point where it is extended than at it's resting position. Because of this, it is hard to control the speed of the tool changer movement.

As that hinge and the cylinder that moves the assembly wears, it gets even more jerky, sometimes to the point where it jerks so much that the fingers can't retain the tool and it throws the tool out of the tool changer. We also had issues with the assembly drooping as that hinge wore.

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After your TCs wore out, did you rebuild them or abandon the TC?

Jay Fleming said:

After your TCs wore out, did you rebuild them or abandon the TC?

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It was several years ago, so I don't remember exactly, but we did some repair work on them. I know that was one of the main reasons that we sold all of them (We had three at one point in time.), but that wasn't the only reason.

Jay Fleming said:

Are you Brian L at the "other place"? If so, I saw a few of your posts about the Partner and you shared a few videos. I only watched the two you posted but I'll check out the others.

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Yes, that would be me. I used to own a medium sized Aerospace machine shop, we had CNC machines from Fadal, Leadwell, Hitachi Seiko (not Seiki, different brand), Nakamura-Tome and Hardinge, so I'm familiar with a few different controls, granted, these were all back in the mid90's at the newest. I picked up an old Partner 4 about 4 years ago now that was dead in some guys garage and rebuilt the PC control and brought the machine back from dead.

I like the programming of the machine, works great with a guy that grew up on g-code (started in the late 70's) and it has conversational, although honestly I can't wrap my head around that as quickly as I do g-code, so I don't use the conversational side often.

To other questions, yes, you can TC tap, that's what I do on mine 90% of the time, or thread mill. As for accuracy, honestly mine is on the ragged edge of it's life, has about .004" backlash in the X and Y axis, ways are turcite and on their last legs on the X, but yet I can still hold good tolerances, I routinely hold less than .001" on milled features like a slot or rectangular part, I will say my Z drifts up and down through the day as spindle temps increase/decrease, but I still measure/adjust and hold a thou or so.

I've always kept my eye out for a Tool changer machine with an enclosure,as knowing the control and electronics as well as I do now, it would make an easy transition for me. I'll be interested to see what the tool changer issues are.... If it's a sloppy pivot and needing some cushioning, that should be fixable with bearings and possibly a gas strut/shock type of thing to smooth the movements. Wouldn't be the first machine I've dealt with that had lousy tool change movements.

I appreciate everyone's replies. Dang wife vetoed getting a VMC right away. I had an eye on one with a 4th axis for $3000 that had been checked out by a tech.

Anyone want to buy a cnc knee mill today?

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It's time to show her who the boss is.

Brian said:

Yes, that would be me. I used to own a medium sized Aerospace machine shop, we had CNC machines from Fadal, Leadwell, Hitachi Seiko (not Seiki, different brand), Nakamura-Tome and Hardinge, so I'm familiar with a few different controls, granted, these were all back in the mid90's at the newest. I picked up an old Partner 4 about 4 years ago now that was dead in some guys garage and rebuilt the PC control and brought the machine back from dead.

I like the programming of the machine, works great with a guy that grew up on g-code (started in the late 70's) and it has conversational, although honestly I can't wrap my head around that as quickly as I do g-code, so I don't use the conversational side often.

To other questions, yes, you can TC tap, that's what I do on mine 90% of the time, or thread mill. As for accuracy, honestly mine is on the ragged edge of it's life, has about .004" backlash in the X and Y axis, ways are turcite and on their last legs on the X, but yet I can still hold good tolerances, I routinely hold less than .001" on milled features like a slot or rectangular part, I will say my Z drifts up and down through the day as spindle temps increase/decrease, but I still measure/adjust and hold a thou or so.

I've always kept my eye out for a Tool changer machine with an enclosure,as knowing the control and electronics as well as I do now, it would make an easy transition for me. I'll be interested to see what the tool changer issues are.... If it's a sloppy pivot and needing some cushioning, that should be fixable with bearings and possibly a gas strut/shock type of thing to smooth the movements. Wouldn't be the first machine I've dealt with that had lousy tool change movements.

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Hi Brian, if you were a little closer to where I am, we would be able to negotiate a deal on a spare VM16 that I have. It has the 12 tool, tool changer.
That must be a real pain, and time consuming doing tool changes from your chair.
You probably get pretty creative with your tool selections and paths to try and lessen a tool change eh??

I have not had any problems with my toolchanger as of yet, but I have heard that the cushions in the air cylinder will dry out and cause the arm to hit hard at the end of the stroke.
This can be caused by their being no oil in the air reservoir or the needle valve not adjusted properly to allow oil in the air system.
Dave

Hi Dave,

Yes, a VM16 would be nice, anything where I don't have to sweep chips up off the floor constantly and manually change the tools. I have shoulder issues from being in the wheelchair, so I try to limit myself to doing a setup and then my wife actually runs the parts for our products. I try to fixture multiple parts as often as possible to get 2 or 4 parts for the same number of tool changes, allows for some longer cycle times so we can deburr and such also.

The little Leadwell I had back in the 90's had an umbrella that slid in and out on rails and had cushions in the cylinders and additional external cushions at each end of the stroke. They eventually wore out and even after replacing the tool changes became unpredictable. I suspect there were some timing and proximity switches that needed work. I know a lot more now than I did then about the electrical end of things.

converterking said:

It's time to show her who the boss is.

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Show me someone who's been successful at this and then I'll follow their example.

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In the early 80's my wife was a stay at home mom. I was looking at buying 5 acres of undeveloped land at a busy intersection out in the country for $25,000. She stopped me saying that would be too risky. McDonald's bought the property a couple years later for $250,000. When we drive by it today she tells me that she can't believe she stopped me from buying it. Show your wife this and go pick up the Milltronics.