New Haas TRT160, TRT210, Are they rigid enough for heavy aluminum drilling/milling?

BP0650 · Feb 14, 2022

We are looking to add one of the new TRT's to our vf2ss to replace a HRT210. I am worried about rigidity and brake torque.

My main concern is in the op shown we will be running a 1" insert tsc drill through the length of the billet in the shown position. We are currently doing this on a traditional 4th axis rotary with no issues. However I am concerned with the adding of the additional axis and the way the force would now be distributed that we may run into some issues. Is anyone out there running these new TRTs? Do you like them? Are they rigid enough with the A at 90? What do you mill on it?

We would be getting the break booster to assist no matter what but this is a very expensive addition for it not to be able to perform as needed. There are ZERO videos other than one from haas were they take any thing near a "heavy cut" or drill on the new TRT.

thesidetalker · Feb 14, 2022

Saw this running at imts 2018... https://youtu.be/gW0ADW8fDhQ?t=86

Different model, but they're drilling pretty far off center with a sizable drill.

No experience with brake booster or either of those TRT's, but looks to work alright?

BP0650 · Feb 14, 2022

My only concern is the TRT only mounts via one side unlike the TR200Y that mounts on both sides. I actually looked at one of the TR200ys but we need more part swing.

Milland · Feb 14, 2022

A Haas applications rep should be able to take the geometry you've drawn and the specs for the drill size/speed/feed and calculate the margins. Check with them and get a "written guarantee" of suitability before making the purchase.

BP0650 · Feb 14, 2022

I was not aware they did that, I will reach out to see if I can get something in writing.

Milland · Feb 14, 2022

BP0650 said:
I was not aware they did that, I will reach out to see if I can get something in writing.

Heh - they may whine, but they can do it. Put the screws to 'em if they bitch about it.

At worst, you may have to supply the nominal value for drilling force (something the drill vendor should be able to get you), but the torque ratings on the trunnion are straight forward when the Z load is known.

EMTech · Feb 14, 2022

The TRT160 and TRT210 are surprisingly rigid. I like them a lot better then the TR series because the design offers more clearance. The TR200Y series requires a safe tool change position that adds a lot of extra time to the tool changes. You can use a safe tool change position with the TRT series if needed, but the distance that you will need to move will be a lot less. I have run a lot of 17-4ss and titanium alloy 6al-4v in the TRT160 with no problems, but I was not using a 1" inserted drill either. The biggest drill I used at A90. that I can remember was around .360". It was a solid carbide coolant through drill into 17-4ss. I didn't have any trouble with it, but that isn't close to a 1" inserted drill!

The TRT100 is pretty weak, but faster. The TRT70 is next to worthless as far as rigidity is concerned. Just my opinions...

mhajicek · Feb 14, 2022

EMTech said:
The TRT70 is next to worthless as far as rigidity is concerned. Just my opinions...

Could you elaborate on that? What do you suppose it's limits are? I'm considering getting one for my CM-1; I do small medical device parts.

Thanks

EMTech · Feb 14, 2022

mhajicek said:
Could you elaborate on that? What do you suppose it's limits are? I'm considering getting one for my CM-1; I do small medical device parts.

Thanks

I can get you a good deal on one (or two) from a company that tried to use them! They were also trying to use it on a CM-1. I don't know if it was ever actually used.

The rigidity issue is that you can see several thousandths of movement by pushing on it by hand. I can't remember how much, but I am thinking it was over .005". I can double check with some of the guys who were heading up this project if you want to know a better number. This also caused poor surface finishes.

The other issue is the platter weight limit restricts the use of most off of the shelf fixturing. By the time you get the chunk of material and the fixturing, you are over the weight limit.

Let me know if you want more info or if you are interested in buying one. I can check to see if they still have them available. I do know that they were wanting to sell them.

mhajicek · Feb 15, 2022

EMTech said:
Let me know if you want more info or if you are interested in buying one. I can check to see if they still have them available. I do know that they were wanting to sell them.

Yes please. I should be in the position to buy one in a few months, and my parts are small enough (a few grams) that it just might work ok. I use a lot of 1/32 and smaller cutters. I'm currently using an HA5C-T, and my machine is 5 axis ready. I used a TR-160Y at my last employer, but the parts were much larger.

Thanks!

mhajicek · Feb 15, 2022

EMTech said:
The other issue is the platter weight limit restricts the use of most off of the shelf fixturing. By the time you get the chunk of material and the fixturing, you are over the weight limit.

I did find a self-centering vise that fits inside a 4" circle, and weighs 2 pounds 4.0 ounces. I'm sure I could lightweight it a bit.

EMTech · Feb 15, 2022

mhajicek said:
Yes please. I should be in the position to buy one in a few months, and my parts are small enough (a few grams) that it just might work ok. I use a lot of 1/32 and smaller cutters. I'm currently using an HA5C-T, and my machine is 5 axis ready. I used a TR-160Y at my last employer, but the parts were much larger.

Thanks!

There are two available. They are asking $16,000 for each unit. It does sound like there is some flexibility in that price. They have had very little use.

implmex · Feb 15, 2022

Hi mhajicek:
Not to hijack this thread completely, but are you looking to mount blocks on a 5 axis rotary like a TRT 70 via a dovetail with this tiny self centering vise?
If so, you may do better if you're weight conscious, with a lump of titanium that has a female dovetail wired into it and a flex clamp instead of that vise.
You just have to make all the dovetails on your workpieces the same to accommodate the limited clamp range...no big deal.

It's the method I've chosen for much of what I do. and it works very well.
It's also cheap and versatile...you can make the mount any shape you want so you don't have to hang the cutters out very far to still reach your part.
There's no need to make these on the wire EDM either...it's a convenient way but you can mill them too.

Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining

mhajicek · Feb 15, 2022

implmex said:
Hi mhajicek:
Not to hijack this thread completely, but are you looking to mount blocks on a 5 axis rotary like a TRT 70 via a dovetail with this tiny self centering vise?
If so, you may do better if you're weight conscious, with a lump of titanium that has a female dovetail wired into it and a flex clamp instead of that vise.
You just have to make all the dovetails on your workpieces the same to accommodate the limited clamp range...no big deal.

It's the method I've chosen for much of what I do. and it works very well.
It's also cheap and versatile...you can make the mount any shape you want so you don't have to hang the cutters out very far to still reach your part.
There's no need to make these on the wire EDM either...it's a convenient way but you can mill them too.

Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining

Thanks, this is a viable option.

mhajicek · Sep 30, 2022

TRT70 showed up yesterday. It'll be a few days until I have the chance to plug it in and see how it works.

Stirling · Sep 30, 2022

I might be selling a tr110 in the next few months. if the 70 does not work out..
The 40lb of break torque the tr110 is just on the edge of what I’m requiring.
It’s a pretty slick unit tho.
Fast, accurate and supported on both sides

From what I understand the tr110 is designed to be the biggest the om/cm’s would take at the time of making it.

mhajicek · Oct 1, 2022

Stirling said:
I might be selling a tr110 in the next few months. if the 70 does not work out..
The 40lb of break torque the tr110 is just on the edge of what I’m requiring.
It’s a pretty slick unit tho.
Fast, accurate and supported on both sides

From what I understand the tr110 is designed to be the biggest the om/cm’s would take at the time of making it.

Interesting. Looks like it's been discontinued, but I found a model on GrabCAD. Looks like it would indeed fit.

Stirling · Oct 1, 2022

mhajicek said:
Interesting. Looks like it's been discontinued, but I found a model on GrabCAD. Looks like it would indeed fit.

Ya the grab cad model is what I used in fusion360 for simulation.

My work would be better suited to a tr/trt160 ot a trt210.
But good luck finding a sigma1 servo’d trt160 used :/

EMTech · Oct 2, 2022

Stirling said:
Ya the grab cad model is what I used in fusion360 for simulation.

My work would be better suited to a tr/trt160 ot a trt210.
But good luck finding a sigma1 servo’d trt160 used :/

Is your tr110 a sigma1?

For the right price, I may be interested.

DSMWerks · Dec 16, 2022

I just acquired a VM2 5 axis ready. Really want the new TRT160 since the VM2 is sigma 5. I've hunted for a long time before buying the mill for a TRT160 and found an older sigma 1 that may be NIB and purchased it. Not a spot on it and has cosmoline wax still on it. Then I end up with a Sigma 5 mill, go figure! I'll put the two together for a test run but now that I have it in my head for a Sigma 5 TRT160 I know what's going to happen.

New Haas TRT160, TRT210, Are they rigid enough for heavy aluminum drilling/milling?

Plastic

Attachments

Hot Rolled

Plastic

Diamond

Plastic

Diamond

Aluminum

Titanium

Aluminum

Titanium

Titanium

Aluminum

Titanium

Titanium

Titanium

Hot Rolled

Titanium

Hot Rolled

Aluminum

Aluminum

Similar threads