More new Haas issues.....

Ok, so we purchased 2 new VF4SS Mills in February '22. The other day on one mill the operator had a "mishap" which required me to re-orient his spindle so I figure easy peasy no problem. However I discovered we get to pay Haas $500 to have the right to get into settings on the machine. Grumbled a bit, paid the toll then got the stupid Haas key a few days later and set out to fix spindle alignment. I went to Haascnc for the cute little guide and it was close to being right, only had to change 3 out of 8 steps for the procedure to work correctly. Halfway through the spindle deal the operator from the other new VF approaches me all bent out of shape talking about his Z way cover had self destructed. I instantly assume a mistake was made , after all I was repairing one at that very moment. However upon closer inspection the backside of the table does make contact with the Z axis way cover with the spindle all the up, if a z move occurs towards the table with the table against the cover it literally stacks the way cover/bellows up on top of the surface of the table. Then making any move in X with the Z cover pinched will literally rip the cover right out of the track. I couldn't believe it, I thought hardstops in the 90's had made this an issue of the past. Was Haas trying for every last tenth of travel for bragging rights ? Oversight by engineering? Whatever happened we're trying to warranty it but I don't have high hopes. Just a word of warning to others to keep an eye out for. Took several pictures, site won't let me upload any of them saying to large.

I think in large part your timing was poor / unlucky. You got machines built in the middle of a supply and labor shortage. I got lucky, mine was just at the start of it, and it's pretty good, but lead times were beginning to stretch. People ordering one month later than me had to weight several months longer.

Out of curiosity, did you get those machines pretty close to base, or well optioned out? I have a hypothesis that they put more care and attention into the well optioned machines, and my rep told me that having all the bells and whistles helped keep my lead time from growing more than it did.

I got a new machine delivered a few months ago and it has had several problems like that too. My door get jammed and I can't open it. Its a DT, so no side windows that open. So its a few minute fight every at the end of each cycle to open the door. My HFO has been great about trying to address many of the issues I've had, reach out to them with anything while its under warranty.

You're absolutely right about that Z cover setup being unbelievable, but you've lost me at the "haas key" costing $500!
No friggin' way!
Can someone else confirm that the USB stick to boot up with for access to parameters is now a $500 item?
As it is I think you're getting scammed by the HFO!

The z axis cover makes contact with the table in normal operation…….
That seems like a very glaring oversight for haas to make

SeymourDumore said:

You're absolutely right about that Z cover setup being unbelievable, but you've lost me at the "haas key" costing $500!
No friggin' way!
Can someone else confirm that the USB stick to boot up with for access to parameters is now a $500 item?
As it is I think you're getting scammed by the HFO!

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It is, the key is so you can only do some things. There is another key that gives you the same access as techs. Unless things have changed in the last year

Djstorm100 said:

It is, the key is so you can only do some things. There is another key that gives you the same access as techs. Unless things have changed in the last year

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From what I know, the "key" is actually a plane-jane USB stick with a single file on it.
You boot the machine with it plugged in and get access to certain parameters.
I did get it once ( few years ago ) to monitor something in the gearbox parameters ( had random gearshift failures at power up for a while ), but it was free and expired in something like 30 days or so.
Are you saying that Haas is now charging for this?
I get it that they're trying to protect vital stuff from the Bubbas of the world, but come on!
WTF? When did Autodesk take over Haas Automation?

SeymourDumore said:

From what I know, the "key" is actually a plane-jane USB stick with a single file on it.
You boot the machine with it plugged in and get access to certain parameters.
I did get it once ( few years ago ) to monitor something in the gearbox parameters ( had random gearshift failures at power up for a while ), but it was free and expired in something like 30 days or so.
Are you saying that Haas is now charging for this?
I get it that they're trying to protect vital stuff from the Bubbas of the world, but come on!
WTF? When did Autodesk take over Haas Automation?

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Haas as always charged for all the options long before Autodesk came about lol. It's sold by the HFO now.

Wild how Haas has created such a following where they can pull this stuff and people still buy them.

mhajicek said:

I think in large part your timing was poor / unlucky. You got machines built in the middle of a supply and labor shortage. I got lucky, mine was just at the start of it, and it's pretty good, but lead times were beginning to stretch. People ordering one month later than me had to weight several months longer.

Out of curiosity, did you get those machines pretty close to base, or well optioned out? I have a hypothesis that they put more care and attention into the well optioned machines, and my rep told me that having all the bells and whistles helped keep my lead time from growing more than it did.

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Could be bad timing I suppose, although we waited around 8 months for these machines after ordering. I would say these mills are bottom to mid optioned, it has the probe and TSC but the smaller SMTC of the two. 40 taper standard spindle and HP. So far under warranty we've had all the check valves in the TSC replaced and a board within the control on one of the 2 machines replaced but the TSC still has a 10 second lag before firing while our 2014 VF4 doesn't have any. Other than 2 of the 4 highfalutin LED work lights not working on install and engineering snafus they've been otherwise solid machines so far to Haas's credit.

SeymourDumore said:

You're absolutely right about that Z cover setup being unbelievable, but you've lost me at the "haas key" costing $500!
No friggin' way!
Can someone else confirm that the USB stick to boot up with for access to parameters is now a $500 item?
As it is I think you're getting scammed by the HFO!

Click to expand...

$500 is base level, to go into true debug costs yet even more . If you send a maintenance fella to the 2 week Haas training they will ( at this time) give each graduate a "service key" , a skeleton key of sorts which is supposed to work on all of them. Maybe the company putting out do it yourself videos on YouTube has decided the instructional videos are free but getting to play isn't ?

There is a 2 week maintenance course haas puts on? And gives you a service key for attending?
I wonder what the cost of the course is??? Could be a fun working holiday.

All I know is I won’t buy another haas unless they provide a full service key with the machine. It’s a hard no go for me.
I’m 550km from any service center.
Any service call is 11 hours driving. 1 night hotel and meals at minimum.
Now if they need to come back once or twice plus parts I may as well be rolling a new machine into that financing…

If I can’t tweet a tool changer setting or monitor something I’m not interested in the equipment.
Better yet knowledgeable over the phone assistance to help me work through troubles.

I bought a used lathe from a shop( originally supplied by modern CNC, Calgary)(no affiliation just a happy “customer”)
They have helped me over the phone so many times, for free I might add. (My fault always:/ )
With a simple “please consider us for your next purchase”

That’s the kind of business that will get my next machine purchase.

We purchased a new UMC500 in June, they are still working through some of the odd design issues with us. Not what we expected....

the -35 degree B axis is standard on all UMC.... not just the 500 where it appears if there WAS more travel it COULD collide with the probe, my UMC1000SS at work has the same limit with much larger enclosure + travels

did you not look at the kinematics before purchasing or understand it?

Update !!!
Haas to their credit did admit that there were some parameters set wrong and DID warranty the bellows cover. The poor tech comes in and gets right to work changing out the cover and had it done really well in a decent amount of time. He tells me all he's waiting on is "permission" to put a patch on the travel to prevent future damage. He waited all day and never got the patch. I had to ask twice, "you can't even , as a Haas Tech , access all the settings" ? No

/popcorn...
LOL!

smallshopwrench said:

Update !!!
Haas to their credit did admit that there were some parameters set wrong and DID warranty the bellows cover. The poor tech comes in and gets right to work changing out the cover and had it done really well in a decent amount of time. He tells me all he's waiting on is "permission" to put a patch on the travel to prevent future damage. He waited all day and never got the patch. I had to ask twice, "you can't even , as a Haas Tech , access all the settings" ? No

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So the fix is new bellows and limiting the machines travel?
How much travel from spec would you be loosing?

That's hilarious! I've squeezed an extra inch or two from several of my machines. Haas makes you give it back- And in Y where it hurts the most. Lol Haas.

Stirling said:

So the fix is new bellows and limiting the machines travel?
How much travel from spec would you be loosing?

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1/2". No more hard stops these days.

smallshopwrench said:

1/2". No more hard stops these days.

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thats not a trivial amount! if i lost 1/2" on my vf2 i would be down 1 one my products i make on it... how the heck could they have missed that during a redesign? if they are that straped to pay QC it may be time to short their stocks? yeesh