Stones for machinists...

Paul Cataldo · Jun 25, 2006

Well,
I've been wanting to buy a selection of stones for general shop use.
Until now, I've gotten by with the fine use of files, and sandpaper, which has actually worked out well I think.
I have not found much upon searching this topic in the forum, and I'm wondering what kind of stones do you machinists use?
I am thinking of placing an order for the "Diemakers Stone Kit" sold on this site:

http://www.gesswein.com/catalog/home.cfm?CFID=715175&CFTOKEN=92894802

Here's the "Diemakers stones" that I was thinking of buying, in a kit of 12pcs.
http://www.gesswein.com/catalog/index.cfm?cat=1&sub=4&catalog=2&CFID=715175&CFTOKEN=92894802

These "Diemakers Stones" are apparently aluminum oxide makeup.
I was also wondering if I should purchase some India, or Arkansas stones?
What are you guys using?
I'm sure there are hundreds of different scenarios where different stones might be needed, but I'm just looking for a good selection to start out with.
They are relatively cheap, so I was going to buy the $30 Diemakers kit, and then whatever else you guys suggest for everyday shop use.
Thanks for any input...

Ferrous Antiquos · Jun 25, 2006

My all time favorite is Gesswein's 1"x1"x6" EDM stone. I've had the same one since 1978, until I knocked it onto the floor last week.

Second up is a 4" round one made by Norton, with two different grits. Great for stoning over large areas like mill tables, surface plates, and such. This one fits perfectly in one of those round Rubbermaid "Serving Savers" that you can buy in the supermarket. Keep it in there with some honing oil or kerosene. I have a few hex nuts in the bottom of the container, that way the stone doesnt sit in it's own crud.

Third use is just a small handful of square, round and triangular stones, 1/2" size and under.

Hard Arkansas stones are good where you need to deburr or polish where none of the parent material can be removed.

Paul Cataldo · Jun 25, 2006

Ferrous wrote:

"Hard Arkansas stones are good where you need to deburr or polish where none of the parent material can be removed. "

-That's good to know Ferrous, as this is many times, exactly what I need to do....(deburr, not polish)....

One thing,
I'm surprised that you mention use of a round Norton stone for deburring a milling table.
Is this a 4" long round (rod), or a 4" round, flat disc?
I would think a flat stone would be best...
Thanks,.

jkilroy · Jun 25, 2006

I use diamond laps more than anything for fine work, touching up bits and the like. I have a big soft india stone that I abuse with deburring and the like.

JL Sargent · Jun 25, 2006

Hockey puck shape is it.

eKretz · Jun 25, 2006

I have the exact same stone Ferrous mentioned. Very handy. I actually possess two of that size, both dual grit. One has a side for ferrous and a side for non-ferrous metals, and the other is both sides for ferrous metals with a 1/2" radius finger groove all around the o.d. Both stones are approx. 4" diameter x 1 1/4" high. I also have a large assortment of misc. small stones; oval, round, triangular, square, rectangular, etc. along with a few diamond Eze-Laps.

johnoder · Jun 25, 2006

Be aware that some stones used in die and mold making are strictly for polishing. These wear away to the metal contour real quick. They come in a wide selection of grits.

John

Mike72 · Jun 25, 2006

I have a India slips in almost every shape and in fine, medium, and coarse. They do an excellent job and clean up easily with mineral spirits.

Peter S · Jun 25, 2006

I couldn't be without a few stones, mostly Gessweins about 12mm wide x 2mm thick x 150 long (approx). Break them in half or whatever if required. Keep them stuck in a bit of kero, ready to go. They do wear out (if say you are doing some stoning prior to polishing), so you need a few.

Strange, I hardly do work that requires them now, was a time when everything I did was stoned prior to machining or assembly. A light pass with a stone tells you whats going on with surfaces.

For finishing off a HSS turning or boring tool, I like something small, say 8-10mm square section, hard, only needs to be about 50mm long. I don't like using big stones for this sort of work.

traytopjohnny · Jun 25, 2006

I have so many stones that I have not the time to describe them. My choice, though, if I were to have no other, would be a six inch long X one inch thick X two inch wide India medium. Norton is a fine example. John

Michael Az · Jun 25, 2006

I have been buying stones at swap meets for years. They are usually so cheap and after a while, whatever you need, you will have.
I have some soft Norton 320 grit that work great for stoning tool bits. Soft will cut hard steel fast.
Michael

richardny · Jun 25, 2006

for die work use diamond lapping compound and a bamboo stick

I have stones but find little use for them

Super Dave · Jun 26, 2006

I use those Gesswein diemaker stones all the time. 1/2x1/4x6" is a very handy size. I would not buy thinner than 1/8" simply because they snap in half too easy. Instead, if you need to get into a tight spot, thin one end of a 1/4 or 1/8" stone using your bench grinder. It takes it down pretty quick and is less likely to break. You will need to dress the grinding wheel when you are done.

Super Dave
Rapid CNC

lazlo · Jun 26, 2006

I'm surprised by the number of die makers here using the Gesswein India stones.

Are they better than the Norton diemaker's stones?

JRIowa · Jun 26, 2006

I've got 2 stones that I use all of the time, both are Norton.

The first is no longer made is a combination Arkansas stone. One side is hard, the other soft. About 4*1*3/4".

The second is a double India stone, soft and hard. Norton number is IB134.

Both of those get used for deburring. I used the Arkansas on the mag chuck of the surface grinder. The India gets used on Mill table, vise, fixtures, etc.

Other than that, I have boxes of stone. Probably use Gesswein's "EDM" stones the most. They cut hard material as good as anything else.

BTW, what you use for oil makes a big difference. If your doing a lot of mold polishing, Gesswein's or Norton's oil is very good. For my home shop, I mix cutting oil and solvent.
JR

willbird · Jun 26, 2006

I like the Norton brown stones, in all shapes, the double sided one is handy too. You can surface grind most stones to return them to a nice flat surface if you can find a way to hold them, the 2 sided norton sone that is about 2" x 6" I have held in a 6" mill vise to surface grind.

Bill

John Garner · Jun 26, 2006

Paul --

Although I've never put bread on my family's table by working as any sort of machinist, I've been hanging around machine shops and machine tools for almost 40 years now. For most of that time, I used mostly India stones on parts and toolbits but kept a couple of large silicon carbide stones around for rough work and a couple of hard Arkansas stones for polishing. Several years ago, though, I bought a medium grade Ezy-Lap 1 inch x 3 inch diamond-grit "pocket sharpening stone" for somewhere around US$ 8 that I slip into my pants pocket whenever I'm expecting to be working with tools or machinery. The Ezy-Lap stone is maybe a touch coarser than the India stones, cuts whole bunches faster, cuts carbide that the India stone doesn't scratch, and doesn't complain too much when dropped.

I prefer the Ezy-Lap to its competitors from DMT and the Far East because the Ezy-Lap has a "solid" surface rather than a "perforated" surface that catches on edges and points. DMT does offer a solid-surface diamond stone (they call it a machinist model), but I've never found one of them in a store and have haven't needed one bad enough to make a special order worthwhile.

John

traytopjohnny · Jun 27, 2006

I agree with you John Garner. I have several Ezlap products. They work quick and last. Mainly though I use them for knife maintenance. When I repair machine tools, I am usually armed with a multitude of India medium stones. I aquire my stones from flea markets and rarely pay more than a dollar. I have many shapes and hardnesses and am nearly embarassed about my selection as I no longer am in the machine repair buisness.

Davis In SC · Jun 27, 2006

BTW, what you use for oil makes a big difference. If your doing a lot of mold polishing, Gesswein's or Norton's oil is very good. For my home shop, I mix cutting oil and solvent.
JR

A trick a cranky old German taught me.. Use an Alkaline cleaner, such as Fantastic, or Formula 409 as a lubricant for stoning molds. I was doubtful, but it really speeds things up. He explained that the cleaner helped to break down the bond, exposing fresh abrasive... Just make sure to clean & oil the part, when you are done, since it will rust in a hurry...

Paul Cataldo · Jun 27, 2006

Well guys, are you using the EZ Laps that have the plastic handles on them, and are color coded?
I believe this is the type EZ Lap I've seen before, but not sure.

I would like something to touch up HSS toolbits with (sounds like EZ Lap works for this, as well as Arkansas or India), and also some stones for deburring mill tables, and spindle bores, tailstock bores, etc.
I think the Arkansas ultra fine Norton, in a white bar from Gesswein is what I'll buy, and I will try to find a good place to buy some EZ laps. Are all EZ Laps diamond stones, and what is the grade you guys use? Fine, Medium, etc?
I mainly want something shaped well (not too big) for touching up HSS toolbits...
Not sure if I need oil for this or not. I would think not...
Thanks to all for the great info..

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