OT: Roof Leak Disaster...

Looking for suggestions. I had a new roof put on my fourplex 3 years ago. It is a sprayed polyurea roof, high dollar, costs me 12K+ at the time. Came with a 15 year labor AND materials warranty. Here is the catch.

The F&*#^%$ roof leaks, and has been leaking since it was done. The company has been back five times to fix it. (We have had brief periods of no leaks) It leaks through one upstairs unit down into mine. I have to empty a bucket every 15 minutes. (No Sleep and I can't leave the damn house)

The guys at the company have been nice as can be and have bent over backwards. However that doesn't mean **** at 4 in the morning when I am emptying my 25th bucket of rain water. Not to mention, sheet rock damage, repainting, and all of the water that goes under my building. (Conventional foundation)

What it comes down to is I have ZERO confidence that these guys can fix the problem and I want to hire someone else to do it. However, I want my original roofer to pay for it. Any chance this will get pulled off without going to court? Can the roofing company be held responsible for all of the internal damage?

here is an idea of what to replace it with:

tpo membrane. 12 foot wide rools. heat welded seams. fully adhered to the roof, no balast, no flapping.

I like mine

seems like you have a case to me. What does your attorney say? BTW as someone who has delt with lots of leaky roofs, take a bucket and insert a pipe fitting and run a vinyl hose off of it into the drain. works real well. I once rented space in a building where I had to set up about 10 barrels like that on the floor above me. worked so well the landlord didn't see the need to fix the roof.

It sounds like they are not actually finding the problem, or possibly the repair in the right place is inadequate.

I feel your pain, I just had my roof fixed this year from the builder's damage...it leaked 6 years into the purchase from new, roof warranty from the builder is 5 years, Grr. Amazing that it even lasted that long, there were shingles missing, toe board holes never filled, and a place where the flashing actually dammed up water...Egad.

I would most certainly attempt to hold them accountable for internal damage, possibly they will get the idea after spending and spending and spending that they need to do something different.

Some people are not very easily educated, but they tend to wake up when their wallet is involved.

Maybe if this company is one that runs ads on TV get your local TVs "call for action" news show to chase them down and put cameras in their face... it might work and won't cost you anything....

Get the BEST lawyer in town, your gona need him because the roofer will have the best. Be prepared to loose, and let the guy continue trying to fix it. If you win, be prepared to not collect, roofers are among the most dificult to collect from, they go bankrupt a lot and start up with another name.

A fellow on your side wid a bent nose named Guido from Newark New Joisey could be a real asset.

Don't mess with a lawyer yet. Lawyers never fixed a roof yet.

Basically, whether you like it or not, it is YOUR problem. It's YOUR roof......and YOUR drywall, etc.

So, for best results, regardless of the "rights" and "wrongs" of the situation, YOU need to locate the leak on the roof, and then work with the roofers to get it straightened out. Point at it and say, "here is the leak.... fix it". They should be able to explain how they plan to do that. Evaluate their plan, and see if it makes sense. If not, ask some "why" questions and you should get somewhere.

Hey, you are a machinist, or a related intelligent techie type guy, so it should not be a problem for you.

Around here, we have a saying about roofers.... line up a bunch and count teeth. if you can find more than a couple dozen, you have higher level of roofers than average here.

Most roofers around here are mostly focused on low-tech stuff like finding the guy that jumped them at the bar last week and teaching him a good lesson this week. That accounts for the teeth.

They are NOT super-good at tracking down leaks..... unless they take them.

What's a "fourplex" ? This is a flat "tar" type roof, like on an old industrial building ?

I had major roof leak problems once, on a brand new building...but it was due to the morons tightening the gazillion metal screws too tight such that the rubber gromets on each screw were squeezed out.

They ended up redoing the entire (5,000 sq ft) roof ! And it leaked too ! Just not as much..
Also leaks at the skylights...never did get those absolutely leak free. Had leaks in all previous digs as well, but finally bought a building with zero leaks...not one drop in the entire 15,000 sq ft even in torrential pourdowns.

I sympathise, I had a deal like this with my parents extension roof. The roof was a flat deck newly sheathed with glass fibre, the leak appeared in the centre of the ceiling. The problem was that at one wall, they had not taken the glassfibre under the tiles of the original roof, because the bricks of the wall were there. Removing a few tiles up the slope, hacking out the masonary and putting new flashing from the slope over the glasfibre. sorted it all. The original fitters had been back 3 times complaining about the puddling on the centre of the roof and not wished to refit the whole roof. As Jtiers says, you will just have to try to get involved with the problem solving. Try to localise the leak with a hose. What is the roofs substrate? what is its pitch? is there a loft or dead space, because the water will only drip when the slope is too shallow( obstruction across slope) or something has filled up.
You could try to get a glossy or spec sheet for the process to make sure that the fitters have not taken any shortcuts.
Frank

Check for mold problems if the leaks have been going on for some time. If you find some, don't panic, because most people are not allergic to small amounts.

The building is a four unit mult-family with a flat roof, about a 6" pitch across 40 ft. The substrate is 3/4 ply and tar paper, then sprayed foam with this high tech polyurea stuff on top.

The problem with finding the leak myself is having to get onto the roof, its 40ft up and I sure don't have a ladder long enough. This has to be resolved. I know, as does this roofing company, EXACTLY where the leak is coming from and they still have not fixed it in five attempts.

one thing certan i can say for flat roofs. they leak. always did always will.

So, is this a leak that you know about in the middle of the roof somewhere?

Or is this one of those deals where it leaks at a seam or under the flashing, at the edge of the parapet, etc?

Roofs have problems with expansion and contraction, etc. If it is somewhere that can pull away when colder, and then leak, slathering more roof goo on it won't work. There has to be a different solution.

Oh..... and the sprayed stuff often does NOT bond well to previously sprayed material. Kinda needs to be done in one piece at one time. Otherwise it can peel up due to weathering etc.

Never dealt with it on a roof, but have seen the material before, we were considering it for a coating on out products. After a while, the material gets to where you can't really expect a bond when you re-spray.

It may be that the leak cannot be repaired with their standard materials, and they might have to do something different..... which they may not want to, or be able to, do.

At that point you could be indeed looking at a suit for relief from the damages due to defective workmanship, etc, and the cost of having it put right.

jkilroy, I assume that there is a common hallway/landing on the
top floor? Even better if there is an outside stairway/porch.
If so, the first thing you need is an access hatch to the roof. If
the roofer won't put it in, and you don't feel confident putting
one in your self, find a competent framing carpenter to cut it in.
Even if it needs to go inside the upper unit, locks can be
installed so the tenants can't go up to skinny dip in the sun.

Once you have easy access, you can at your leisure, inspect
and patch or have a second opinion from another roofer
without them needing to bring a crew truck out.

jim

Dunno about residential, but in commercial work any long term warranty is backed by the roofing material manufacturer. They certify that the roofer is competent to install the specific system, and usually send a rep to visually inspect the work and sign off on it at completion. This is done specifically because long term warranties require somebody with deep pockets to be standing the warranty for it to actually be worth anything. This comes up real often on "rubber" roofs. Someone from Goodyear, Firestone, or whoever supplied the material, checks the job and either approves it or tells them what corrections need to be made. The architect will typically defer to the mfgr rep, since he's the one with a vested interest in the roof remaining leak free.

Whatever you do, DO NOT start messing with the roof yourself, and DO NOT put any penetrations in the roof. Screw around with it, and you assume the warranty, regardless of who may be standing the warranty currently. Find out who made/supplied the material, and contact them to find out who (they or the roofer) backs the warranty. If they back it, put the problem on them. If the roofer stands the warranty, I'd still get someone from the mfgr to inspect and tell me what's wrong. The great majority of roofers are real bad for half ass fixes on stuff that make the problems worse instead of better. An asshole who knows what he's doing is immensely preferable to a nice guy who doesn't

From reading about these roof systems online a bit, it looks like the application conditions are extremely critical. Given JTiers accurate depiction of the majority of roofers, I doubt you'd find one in 100 that could even read the directions, and fewer than that who would understand what they read.

That sprayed foam is high maint. The savvy people that bought it got a 20 yr. service agreement. We had it on one place I worked, they were re-doing large sections of it every summer under warranty.

I HATE roof leaks, what I did with my 4000sq ft bldg is put on modified bitumin torch down, but that was over an existing 90lb roof surface, the reason we went with that was that we did not have to do it all in one day like rubber, and we did not have to put down a substrate to glue to. It went on in two sessions with 3 guys, and it did not leak for 15 years after installation, and the owner of it now has coated it as I advised so he should be fine for a long time.

it just plain sucks when your mood day to day depends on if it is raning inside :-(

Bill

I was at an plant auction in Manning, SC years ago where it literally seemed to be raining more inside the building than it was outside. I suppose this was because the water pooled up on the roof in places such that what water came in was concentrated into a heavier 'pour' than the gentle rain on the outside.

At any rate, it was errie being in this old 200,000 sq ft building with lighting so dim one could barely see and have water practically pouring in from the ceiling from so many areas...pretty much the whole building...huge puddles everywhere. Didn't buy anything...machines were too far gone as well.

lots of buidlings like that around here Don. Nothing like a damp chill from working in a cold wet building all day. makes you want to take a "wee nip of the old sod"

The last roofers who worked at our plant poured more tar down the roof drains than they did on the roof!!!....I've seen at least 6 sections of drainpipe which were clogged nearly solid with tar, and a little natural roof debris did the rest.

So then, water only has to pool ~4" deep where it runs over the edge of one of the seams...and so a large flat area can supply an immense amount of water.

I got called once by some guys who repair carriers, water was pouring in the building on top of a conveyor...we went up and the water was ~12" deep in a several bay area, only roof drain was somehow clogged...no good as this much water can lead to an overload condition where a large chunk can fail and put a "tidal wave" into the building.

Found a piece of 3/4" hose and started two siphons and we had the 12" deep pond quickly drained down to where we could more easily catch the fish

Under some conditions of restricted or clogged
roof scuppers, one can find the interesting
situation where the the load on the roof from
the water causes more downward deflection of
the roof, than the water increases in height
in the ponded area.

This has in the past led to spectacular roof
failures.

Jim