At work it sounds like we will need to begin a quality control process to inspect welds in refurbished equipment but I know very little about radiographic weld testing. Are there any manufacturers of portable weld testing machines you guys could recommend? Are there limitations to how portable units can be used? Like if I'm trying to scan into a 3" thick weld, are there portable units that can do that or is there a general rule of thumb for max material thickness? Also do all radiography testers require a film of some sort to be held on the other side of the weld?
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Are there any welding inspectors out there?
- Thread starter setlab
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john.k
Diamond
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- Dec 21, 2012
- Location
- Brisbane Qld Australia
You would need accredited testers for the certificates ,and if using X rays ,probably a state industrial radiographers licence ,as well as licensed X ray machines.........Yes ,lead /magnetic numbers are stuck to the area and a film holder used to record the image ....its probably all digital now ...have a look at the Customs xrays.....they can xray a complete bulldozer ,or a shipping container full of whatever (ice or coke)
If you plan to participate in radiographic analysis, I recommend you wait until you are at least 50 years old so cancer and blindness won't be so much of a problem.
You do not say what kind of welding and you should if you want good answers
You should also say what the size is of the weld if you want good answers
If you are inspecting for a perfect weld, learn to do it first yourself
If you are doing inspections for a contract, find out if the profit is more important than the weld quality. If it is, determine your personal liability before you sign off your work (better yet, run away from that job).
You do not say what kind of welding and you should if you want good answers
You should also say what the size is of the weld if you want good answers
If you are inspecting for a perfect weld, learn to do it first yourself
If you are doing inspections for a contract, find out if the profit is more important than the weld quality. If it is, determine your personal liability before you sign off your work (better yet, run away from that job).
memphisjed
Stainless
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2019
- Location
- Memphis
Ultrasound/X-ray inspections are not that expensive. You shouldn’t need it on every weld. Only on extremely critical applications do we ever get them done. After the job is all welded the inspector comes out and does their thing. Use pre-qualified procedures and calibrated (like real, with yearly papers) welding machines. Keep your qualified speeds and amps and welders allowed variation from it. Keep an eye on pass temperatures, most of the time after the 3 or fourth pass you need to allow parent material cool.
3 inch weld is massive. Do you have dual wire guns for that?
You can dye welds in house easy enough. Honestly you can see more after a day if grinder grit is attracted to weld area.
3 inch weld is massive. Do you have dual wire guns for that?
You can dye welds in house easy enough. Honestly you can see more after a day if grinder grit is attracted to weld area.
I'll probably be far from it, it's just in its idea brainstorming phase at the moment and no one knows much about weld testing. Have also been looking into ultrasonic testing as well.
Worst case scenario, how easy is it to fuck up a xray test and get doesed by it? Is it a process where ohsa would recommend no one else be working in the near vicinity when testing happens?
john.k
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2012
- Location
- Brisbane Qld Australia
I once watched a disaster movie where the hero had to look through thousands of weld radiograph images of a nuclear reactor,and he finally found an image with a small piece of slag ,he then searches feverishly and hours later finds another image with the same piece of slag.......both images are the same ,but have different certificate numbers .....he knows the testing had been faked .......just the movies ,couldnt happen.......except 50 years later Im working for a company that fakes weld certificates all the time......as well as all the QA
plastikdreams
Diamond
- Joined
- May 31, 2011
- Location
- upstate nj
China syndrome
You want a firm that does non-destructive testing, NDT, of welds. Lots of those companies in the oil and gas fields and pipeline industry.
Here is a company I am familiar with: https://xcelgrp.com/xcel-ndt-and-inspection-services/
Here is a company I am familiar with: https://xcelgrp.com/xcel-ndt-and-inspection-services/
cyanidekid
Titanium
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2016
- Location
- Brooklyn NYC
Wow. I know we all love to tell every random poster with some little problem to "run, don't walk away from that job!"... but if your company is faking weld certs "all the time" that's really, really not good.
I hope its feed troughs or snow plows or something like that, not cranes or bridges.
look into your state's whistle blower laws and start documenting shit.
to the OP, the cert process is well travelled ground. generally whoever is doing it must be a CWI, so this isn't something you can just "pick up on the side".
contact AWS for referrals.
john.k
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2012
- Location
- Brisbane Qld Australia
Relax,it wasnt nuclear reactors.....it was the 10 year Cranesafe inspection...........best example of carpetbagging ever .....perfectly good cranes had to be stripped to bare metal and inspected ........cost more than a new crane ..(which was the idea of the crane industry that paid the government to bring it in)
cyanidekid
Titanium
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2016
- Location
- Brooklyn NYC
yea, that's not ok.
"perfectly good" after 10 years in service and you have no idea what loads or cycles its been exposed to? if it's a cert, it shouldn't be faked period.
if you are ok with that you are part of the problem. check yourself bro.
memphisjed
Stainless
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2019
- Location
- Memphis
Still stuck on 3" welds as normal. If you moving to a shop doing those it is highly specialized and should have this down to a science. 3 inch, I think I have seen welds that big on repair build ups, never on new construction.
I visited a big bridge build shop in Florida, their qc/weld guy used dye and day old grinder grit method- and he had an ultrasound. They did not inspect for certification their own welds, that is liability and crazy talk thinking. All those welds were 5/16 fillet, not 3 freaken inches.
x-ray is worthless on big plate welding. Ultrasound is used to test penetration and crack/delam on our 3/4 and bigger plates.
What is your pre-qualified weld procedure? Are your welders (people) certified using coupons and procedures for your oversized welds? It is better to have a good small weld than bubba-bob laying in fat weavings of weld wire saying more is better. If you are weaving a weld other than cap pass or vertical- you have already failed the weld test.
I visited a big bridge build shop in Florida, their qc/weld guy used dye and day old grinder grit method- and he had an ultrasound. They did not inspect for certification their own welds, that is liability and crazy talk thinking. All those welds were 5/16 fillet, not 3 freaken inches.
x-ray is worthless on big plate welding. Ultrasound is used to test penetration and crack/delam on our 3/4 and bigger plates.
What is your pre-qualified weld procedure? Are your welders (people) certified using coupons and procedures for your oversized welds? It is better to have a good small weld than bubba-bob laying in fat weavings of weld wire saying more is better. If you are weaving a weld other than cap pass or vertical- you have already failed the weld test.
john.k
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2012
- Location
- Brisbane Qld Australia
I saw a vid on Koreas top ship welder... joining two ship sections.....,he s filling vertical up a gap so large you can see guys walking around inside the ship.......There is an automatic mechanical process called electroslag that can do big gaps in thick plates ,but moving slag moulds are needed to contain the weld and slag in place.
reggie_obe
Titanium
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2004
- Location
- Reddington, N.J., U.S.A.
Thought that was Silkwood and the faked Xrays were on fuel rods.
john.k
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2012
- Location
- Brisbane Qld Australia
recall the movie was black and white.....so it was a long time ago...probably 1960s...........the KGB ran a very successful campaign to instill fear of nuclear power into Western societies. Since the fall of the USSR ,its morphed into the green movement...........many older greens were unreconstructed communists,and when they are toppled from key positions in the greens,they simply revert to being communists......example Australian Senator Lee Rhiannon...ex senator now,after green support was taken away by younger rivals.
plastikdreams
Diamond
- Joined
- May 31, 2011
- Location
- upstate nj
Interesting 2 movies dealing with nuke plants with weld defects.
China syndrome was in color, came out just before 3mi incident.
China syndrome was in color, came out just before 3mi incident.
john.k
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2012
- Location
- Brisbane Qld Australia
OK ,Youll be able to hate me for this one,.....the yard was doing a big gas export plant job,and lots and lots of heavy flanged steel pipe.....like 1" wall and thick bolt flanges ......anyhoo,every pipe had a 1" takeoff just behind the flange at either end sticking out maybe 6-8" and a little 4 bolt flange on it.........very easily busted off a 1/2 ton pipe..........A busted take off costing Col over $1000 for repair and new x rays.........so Col says next damage ,and youre all fired on the spot..............sooo,next you know ,the guys are outside the workshop with a big pipe and 'can you fix this'.... 'w ell all be fired'.....'just weld it back on'..
jccaclimber
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2015
- Location
- San Francisco
I fully agree with you. As for the question at the end, you have read at least one of John’s other posts?
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