Bad Alternator Maybe?

Ox · Nov 1, 2022

My main fork truck - with 250 I-6 Chivy:

I thought that the battery was getting bad (it was WAY old) but I replaced the batts in my main truck (875CCA) and the old ones get passed down to lesser equipment. In this case - it was both fork trucks. The little (5k) Clark (?) reacted favorably to it's newly found capacity, and hadn't ran that good in quite some time!

But the big Hyster, well it just didn't change any...

First start - it wants to act like the timing is advanced too far, but then will take off. BUT any time after that, it takes right off!

If I have it on the charger for whatever reason, Pops right off!

It's likely been a year since I replaced the battery, and this always plays out this way, and I am always trying to figger this out every time I git on it.

Tell me if this makes sense, or if you have ever heard of/witnessed it before:

What I am thinkin' is that possibly the V reg in the alt is bleeding off V from the batt while setting, down to a certain voltage and then stops? Is that possible?

I guess that maybe I should keep a meter close by and check the batt V before and after a few times...

???

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

DrHook · Nov 1, 2022

Could be that, or the contacts in the starter solenoid are getting so crusty they don't let enough power through to happily spin the motor. That is, if'n it's that old style starter.

Ox · Nov 1, 2022

But it let's power through on the second, third, fourth start just fine?
(after running a bit)

It does have the traditional Chivy Sol/Starter on it.

------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

DDoug · Nov 1, 2022

Ox said:
My main fork truck - with 250 I-6 Chivy:

I thought that the battery was getting bad (it was WAY old) but I replaced the batts in my main truck (875CCA) and the old ones get passed down to lesser equipment. In this case - it was both fork trucks. The little (5k) Clark (?) reacted favorably to it's newly found capacity, and hadn't ran that good in quite some time!

But the big Hyster, well it just didn't change any...

First start - it wants to act like the timing is advanced too far, but then will take off. BUT any time after that, it takes right off!

If I have it on the charger for whatever reason, Pops right off!

It's likely been a year since I replaced the battery, and this always plays out this way, and I am always trying to figger this out every time I git on it.

Tell me if this makes sense, or if you have ever heard of/witnessed it before:

What I am thinkin' is that possibly the V reg in the alt is bleeding off V from the batt while setting, down to a certain voltage and then stops? Is that possible?

I guess that maybe I should keep a meter close by and check the batt V before and after a few times...

???

--------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Trying to sort out what looks like multiple problems.
1. add a master switch to remove "parasitic drain" from the problem.
Report back here after doing that for 1-2 weeks.

michiganbuck · Nov 1, 2022

Check your battery/body ground, which is often a culprit to elect problems in general. Running a volt meter should check 14 volts at the battery if the alternator is putting out. slow cranking is terrible on your selenoid so avoid trying to crank with a low battery, A single strand of a stranded wire is about or less than 10 amps..I used to apply a single strand from my battery to the alternator to activate it to full charging../but don't advise you to do that

Ox · Nov 1, 2022

DDoug said:
Trying to sort out what looks like multiple problems.
1. add a master switch to remove "parasitic drain" from the problem.
Report back here after doing that for 1-2 weeks.

It goes to "this point" within an hour (?) and then does not continue to drain.
(if it is in fact draining)

So that is why I am looking at the alt, as I cannot think of anything else that could possibly drain, but only to a point.
And that is what I am asking - could an alt actually doo that?

???

I had knife switch disconnects on my last 2 'Burbans as they would both drain off, but they didn't stop...

---------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

michiganbuck · Nov 1, 2022

Nowadays a voltage draw is there by just turning on the key in some vehicles even with the key off. Checking fuses to what one has a draw can sometimes tell where the draw/discharge may be.

Adding a solenoid to one leg of a battery might allow an in-the-driver's seat switch to re-connect the battery, but check with a mechanic to see if connecting and disconnecting might mess up the computer.

DDoug · Nov 1, 2022

michiganbuck said:
Nowadays a voltage draw is there by just turning on the key in some vehicles even with the key off. Checking fuses to what one has a draw can sometimes tell where the draw/discharge may be.

Adding a solenoid to one leg of a battery might allow an in-the-driver's seat switch to re-connect the battery, but check with a mechanic to see if connecting and disconnecting might mess up the computer.

I don't think a computer will be effected.....

BT Fabrication · Nov 1, 2022

Check your ground. id be willing to bet you have a bad contact or connection somewhere between the battery.
cant really use a digital volt meter as they are too slow and avg things out. need a graphing meter or an oscilloscope.
have had starters that do that, ends up being bad bushings in the starter allowing the commutator to not get good connections. started fine some times, was clicking others.
only could tell when had a scope as not cranking it was 11.8V and battery was 12.1v but for a split second cranking there was a drop to 5v, digital volt meter couldnt pick it up.

and voltage regulators work or they dont. not really any in between. as for putting a charger on it, that is typically a bad connection, the charger bumps the voltage up to 14V or so, which allows it to push more watts even though the amps are lower. have had machines where the battery cable ends have a bushing in them for the side terminals that corrodes and causes all the issue.
use a volt meter to read between the positive on the battery and the positive on the starter. put some load on it like lights or something else like a blower fan and see the voltage drop.

Ox · Nov 1, 2022

This isn't random.

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

604Pook · Nov 1, 2022

If there is a bad connection somewhere it could do this. Need some arcing and sparking to make the connection again. Things heat up and it connects with the jump start. Holds up until it cools down again.

I would double check the battery voltage prior to your first start just to get a baseline of the battery condition/charge state after its been sitting. if the voltage is good, start checking the connections. Check voltage when its running as well to see what the alternator is putting out.

Also could check that the alternator exciter wire is actually powered off when ignition is off.

DrHook · Nov 1, 2022

Ox said:
But it let's power through on the second, third, fourth start just fine?
(after running a bit)

It does have the traditional Chivy Sol/Starter on it.

------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

I have never heard of anything losing charge "to a point" and then hanging there. Maybe a cell goin' haywire in the battery, but a load tester will answer that. As for starting better warm, it might be just that-warm?? I just remember hard starting stuff back when I was a kid, if the battery passed the load test and the cable connections were good, we would pull the solenoid apart and clean the copper disk contactors with emery paper before Dad would spring for a new starter...

Ox · Nov 1, 2022

Acted the same with the old batt.

edit:

Also, doesn't need to be that warm...
It lives indoors too.

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

CarbideBob · Nov 1, 2022

Check if any power off not running draw "parasitic drain".
Volt meter set to amps, disconnect plus or minus and meter in between.
Rare that a reg would draw here.
Frigging jeep drove me nuts , turns out radio would not go to sleep even though it's readout was off.
Supposed to shut down on the canbus signal but it brain dead.

Strostkovy · Nov 2, 2022

Our Hyster starts up on the second try every time. It's not slow to crank, it just dies immediately after starting the first time while cold, so I just continue to hold the key.

The only downside is when I get in my truck to go home I sometimes hold the key a bit long when starting it.

dalmatiangirl61 · Nov 2, 2022

What type of battery connectors? Top post or side post? I had a similar problem on my Dmax truck, it was the side post connectors, cut them open, flushed out all the corrosion hidden by the plastic, put them back together and it works fine now.

michiganbuck · Nov 2, 2022

Strostkovy said:
Our Hyster starts up on the second try every time. It's not slow to crank, it just dies immediately after starting the first time while cold, so I just continue to hold the key.

The only downside is when I get in my truck to go home I sometimes hold the key a bit long when starting it.

Often an engine gets 12 at starting and then 6 volts once running. I added a button to hold 12v for a little longer and now my tractor starts much better.

moonlight machine · Nov 2, 2022

Check the battery voltage with the engine off, 12.2or so? Check the voltage with it running, 13.5 or so? If so the alternator / regulator are fine. check the ground connections.

Ox · Nov 2, 2022

Yeah, I checked it this morning and it was holding fast at 12.5, so I guess that's not my issue.

TOP POST!
I despise sides!

It gits to 14+ at speed too.

Maybe I should consider a new starter one day and see if anything changes.

-----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

moonlight machine · Nov 3, 2022

Ox said:
Yeah, I checked it this morning and it was holding fast at 12.5, so I guess that's not my issue.

TOP POST!
I despise sides!

It gits to 14+ at speed too.

Maybe I should consider a new starter one day and see if anything changes.

-----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Check the ground before firing the parts cannon.

Bad Alternator Maybe?

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