Continental F227 water coming out of head bolts

Sedgehammer · Dec 19, 2022

Had this motor rebuilt a while ago. Since then it leaks oil like a drain out the front crank and water out a couple of head bolts. Wondering if I should rebuild again or repower. This is in a 970 bobcat. I know this isn't a skidsteer forum, but many forklifts had the F227

moonlight machine · Dec 19, 2022

Continentals are dirt simple and any even slightly competent rebuilder can put one together that does not leak. I would repair it, but not with the idiots that did it last time.

john.k · Dec 19, 2022

With the age on them now,you get problems like head and block castings corroded so thin they wont seal at gaskets and crack in thin spots.

Sedgehammer · Dec 19, 2022

Yes, but..... thinking of doing it ourselves this time actually. Wondering where the water most likely coming from. I know the F244/245 are notorious for breaking the area between cylinders. Being this is the F227, where else might it be leaking? The head doesn't look like it could be leaking itself, as they are pretty solid looks like

Sedgehammer · Dec 19, 2022

john.k said:
With the age on them now,you get problems like head and block castings corroded so thin they wont seal at gaskets and crack in thin spots.

That's my main concern. I prefer to do a repower, but with what

john.k · Dec 19, 2022

I assume youve got a direct drive hydraulic pump unit.....should be quite simple to fit some kind of diesel to the machine ......in the Hyster forklift ,a 4/200 Perkins was fitted in place of the Continental........or you could go hog wild and fit a two stroke GM.....say a 3/53 or even a 4/53......and a straight pipe.

Garwood · Dec 20, 2022

The direct inject Isuzu D201 Thermoking refer engines are a phenomenal retrofit for old skidsteers. They have nice simple mounts on the bottom of the oil pan. They are the perfect size and shape. They have a simple sae6 bellhousing. They're about 30hp. They run umpty gazillion hours.

moonlight machine · Dec 20, 2022

Sedgehammer said:
Yes, but..... thinking of doing it ourselves this time actually. Wondering where the water most likely coming from. I know the F244/245 are notorious for breaking the area between cylinders. Being this is the F227, where else might it be leaking? The head doesn't look like it could be leaking itself, as they are pretty solid looks like

Water can leak past the threads in the block, up past the stud and past the head nut. Run a tap through the stud holes and clean the studs. Dip the studs in Permatex Hi Tack or equivalent before screwing them in the block. I do not like RTV for this aplication.

DDoug · Dec 20, 2022

Garwood said:
The direct inject Isuzu D201 Thermoking refer engines are a phenomenal retrofit for old skidsteers. They have nice simple mounts on the bottom of the oil pan. They are the perfect size and shape. They have a simple sae6 bellhousing. They're about 30hp. They run umpty gazillion hours.

Google shows it may be an 82 hp machine.
On my older (inline pumps) bobcat, there is a short driveshaft, so retrofitting
should be easy with a bunch of different engines.

DDoug · Dec 20, 2022

john.k said:
I assume youve got a direct drive hydraulic pump unit.....should be quite simple to fit some kind of diesel to the machine ......in the Hyster forklift ,a 4/200 Perkins was fitted in place of the Continental........or you could go hog wild and fit a two stroke GM.....say a 3/53 or even a 4/53......and a straight pipe.

Naw.....a 6v-53 would fit right in there.....
Varoom Varoom !

RC Mech · Dec 20, 2022

Never had one of these apart but do some of the headbolts go thru water jackets? On the AMC and Jeep inline 6's I've rebuilt I use Loctite 592 around the offending orifices that break into the headbolt bores. It's a high-temperature thread sealant good for moderate pressure in automotive applications.

In the above application you need to provide a seal between the bolt shank and the adjacent waterlines on the bolt closest to the thermostat.

Sedgehammer · Dec 20, 2022

RC Mech said:
Never had one of these apart but do some of the headbolts go thru water jackets? On the AMC and Jeep inline 6's I've rebuilt I use Loctite 592 around the offending orifices that break into the headbolt bores. It's a high-temperature thread sealant good for moderate pressure in automotive applications.

In the above application you need to provide a seal between the bolt shank and the adjacent waterlines on the bolt closest to the thermostat.

I'll need to go look, but it was close to the front, but I thought not the closest one. After thinking about this more, the amount of coolant I was loosing and the amount the I would see there don't jive. It would lose 2 gallons an hour or more

Sedgehammer · Dec 20, 2022

DDoug said:
Naw.....a 6v-53 would fit right in there.....
Varoom Varoom !

Yeah, that'd be varoom, varoom till it busted everything else .... lol. Need something around 70HP. Could be a bit less if diesel, as the torque curve is higher

Sedgehammer · Dec 20, 2022

DDoug said:
Google shows it may be an 82 hp machine.
On my older (inline pumps) bobcat, there is a short driveshaft, so retrofitting
should be easy with a bunch of different engines.

This unit was made in 1971 I think, so 50 years old, like most things old, they break easier. I would be ok with a 60ish HP diesel due to the higher torque. 70ish HP gasser

I just looked up the parts diagram and it shows an adapter plate that would bolt onto the bellhousing. The schematic shows a transfer case that bolts too and extends thru the adapter plate with a shaft

Sedgehammer · Dec 20, 2022

Garwood said:
The direct inject Isuzu D201 Thermoking refer engines are a phenomenal retrofit for old skidsteers. They have nice simple mounts on the bottom of the oil pan. They are the perfect size and shape. They have a simple sae6 bellhousing. They're about 30hp. They run umpty gazillion hours.

while a great engine that runs for near ever, too small. Need something about double that

Ox · Dec 20, 2022

DDoug said:
Naw.....a 6v-53 would fit right in there.....
Varoom Varoom !

I had been thinking that a 409 would be a cool replacement for my 250 I6 one day, till I recently saw what they ask for those dumb things!

OK, so a 348 would be about as good - given the app, but those are gold as well!

Who knew?

---------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Garwood · Dec 20, 2022

I just google Bobcat 970. Had no idea they made a 12,000 lb skidsteer in 1971. That's impressive.

I'd recommend a 4B Cummins just like a Case 1845 uses. That's about 80HP. If the hydraulics will support the extra HP, use a 4BT which is around 120HP.

Although that skidsteer would have to be in amazing condition for me to justify spending the money and time to retrofit an engine in a 50+ year old machine.

DDoug · Dec 20, 2022

Sedgehammer said:
Yeah, that'd be varoom, varoom till it busted everything else .... lol. Need something around 70HP. Could be a bit less if diesel, as the torque curve is higher

How would that happen ?
It's a fully hydraulic machine ?
The pumps doo have relief valves on them ?
Your not spinning them any faster than with the old engine.

Sedgehammer · Dec 20, 2022

DDoug said:
How would that happen ?
It's a fully hydraulic machine ?
The pumps doo have relief valves on them ?
Your not spinning them any faster than with the old engine.

It's in the drive train where the issue would be. More power would allow the possibility to move more material at once. That would put more strain on those parts. The lifting capacity wouldn't change, as that's a preset limit. Drivetrain turns if there's power to turn it

Sedgehammer · Dec 20, 2022

Garwood said:
I just google Bobcat 970. Had no idea they made a 12,000 lb skidsteer in 1971. That's impressive.

I'd recommend a 4B Cummins just like a Case 1845 uses. That's about 80HP. If the hydraulics will support the extra HP, use a 4BT which is around 120HP.

Although that skidsteer would have to be in amazing condition for me to justify spending the money and time to retrofit an engine in a 50+ year old machine.

The 900 series were Bobcat's biggest machines for decades. The 970 started it. It is in really good shape plus I've been fixing things over the years to keep it that way. Yes there's a point of no return, but with needing $20,000+ to replace it....... They are a bit big. While this was a gasser, they also came with a Perkins 4.139 I think it was. I know John Deere makes a good motor that's a bit smaller than the 4B. 60 HP I think. I don't use this everyday, nor work it hard really, but there are times I need a skid and don't have the resources to spring for a replacement machine

Continental F227 water coming out of head bolts

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