I just won an auction for a Mazak VTC-20B up in Detroit - lots of questions

Overland · Sep 8, 2022

Well I've moved Bridgeports, and big lathes, but nothing this complicated.
I need some advice, please.

- Apparently the dimensions are 118" x 102" x 106" tall. So I believe this doesn't require oversize permits for width. Does this make sense ? Does this include the control panel on the front ? Can some of the sheetmetal be removed from the back to reduce the width, and stay legal ?

- I believe I should block the slides to prevent damage, how do I do this please ?

- I'm thinking of going to fetch the machine, from Detroit, and bring it home to SC. I'll be looking at commercial shipping options, but I'm concerned on how "my new baby" will be treated.

- Should I do something in particular regarding the machine parameters ? Do they need to be backed up before hand, how is this done ?

Anything else I should be concerned about ?

Appreciate any and all advice and help.
Bob

memphisjed · Sep 9, 2022

102" is legal limit before permit in most areas. That 102" might include or exclude your straps - depending on who and if checked.

Scruffy887 · Sep 9, 2022

It should have tapped holes for shipping brackets that were lost a long time ago. Spindle housing should rest on a piece of wood. Mazak currently uses a specially treated 4x4 (just wrapped in Mazak logo packing tape). You will need a rigger to load it and a machine transport company to deliver it, then rigger to set in place.
Try Globaltranz for transport. He has a network of independent drivers and can get you a good match.
2 months ago one of his drivers blew a tire and could not make the pickup, riggers were here and machine in pieces. 45 minute delay and another driver picked it up.

Overland · Sep 9, 2022

Scruffy887 said:
It should have tapped holes for shipping brackets that were lost a long time ago. Spindle housing should rest on a piece of wood. Mazak currently uses a specially treated 4x4 (just wrapped in Mazak logo packing tape). You will need a rigger to load it and a machine transport company to deliver it, then rigger to set in place.
Try Globaltranz for transport. He has a network of independent drivers and can get you a good match.
2 months ago one of his drivers blew a tire and could not make the pickup, riggers were here and machine in pieces. 45 minute delay and another driver picked it up.

Thanks Scruffy,
So the head is simply lowered down on to a wooden block, that's it ?
Bob

BT Fabrication · Sep 9, 2022

Mazak has transportation recommendations if you get a hold of them.

RC Mech · Sep 9, 2022

Overland said:
Thanks Scruffy,
So the head is simply lowered down on to a wooden block, that's it ?
Bob

Yes, cinch it up a bit until the wood crunches slightly. There will be a bit of preload. No idea how the VTC machines deal with Z axis counter balance but if it’s an accumulator you need not pin a counter weight for the ride. Travelling column machine I doubt it would have a counter weight.

If you’re going to be present for the load binding, one thing I can’t stand on a newly delivered machine is the electrical cabinet doors being bent from an overzealous strapping job. If you’re strapping the control pendant, be aware of running a strap around the enclosure and crushing doors etc. in the process.

Garwood · Sep 9, 2022

Looks like it's 118" wide and 102" deep.

You can haul that sideways on a semi trailer, but you can't on a small trailer behind a pickup. Too much weight on one side, it will overload the column side of the trailer.

Short trips, 118" wide is no problem. Most trucking outfits I know wouldn't even bother with pilot cars for that.

If you take the enclosure off you would be well under 102" and could haul on an equipment trailer behind a hefty pickup. The enclosures are big though. Take up lots of room.

Like was said above- Just scrunch the head down into some substantial wood blocks. I use a couple 12" pieces of 4x12" glulam stacked up. Sink the spindle nose in a good bit and nothing will move.

If it has a counterweight you absolutely must block it though. I doubt it does if the column moves though. It would be banging around during X and Y moves.

Overland · Sep 9, 2022

Referencing Garwood's point, does anybody know if this machine has a counterweight, please ?
I'm reaching out to Mazak as well.
Thanks to all
Bob

Ox · Sep 9, 2022

"Piloted car" ???

My Cinci Maxim 630 came in from Peoria (maybe 6 hours away?).
With the tool changer off it would be about 98" wide, but the 34" tool changer assy was too much to bother removing*, so they went down the road at 132"?

No cars there, but I'm sure that I paid for an O/S permit and daytime only driving!

Pedowitz has 100 trucks on the road, and did a fine job for me recently. (not the one above)
I felt that they were very cost effective on that shipment, but when I priced them for another shipment, that was higher than expected. But I guess sending a truck to Maine is not cheap unless you have a refer load.

Turnkey Machinery Movers NYC Trucking & Rigging

Turnkey Machinery Movers NYC Trucking & Rigging Services specializes in Heavy Haul, Oversized Load Transport & Equipment Hauling

pedowitz.com

* Requires 4 bolts and a plug. Maybe 15 minutes for a rigger to remove. :angry:

------------

I just won an auction for a Mazak VTC-20B up in Detroit - lots of questions

Just an FYI, but it would seem that you were the one person in the world willing to pay the most for this unit.
Hardly seems like "winning"?

-------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Scruffy887 · Sep 9, 2022

Overland said:
Thanks Scruffy,
So the head is simply lowered down on to a wooden block, that's it ?
Bob

Yes. Pretty sure it was the spindle housing, not spindle itself. My 3 VTCs have pneumatic counterbalance.

Overland · Sep 9, 2022

Ox said:
"Piloted car" ???

My Cinci Maxim 630 came in from Peoria (maybe 6 hours away?).
With the tool changer off it would be about 98" wide, but the 34" tool changer assy was too much to bother removing*, so they went down the road at 132"?

No cars there, but I'm sure that I paid for an O/S permit and daytime only driving!

Pedowitz has 100 trucks on the road, and did a fine job for me recently. (not the one above)
I felt that they were very cost effective on that shipment, but when I priced them for another shipment, that was higher than expected. But I guess sending a truck to Maine is not cheap unless you have a refer load.

Turnkey Machinery Movers NYC Trucking & Rigging

Turnkey Machinery Movers NYC Trucking & Rigging Services specializes in Heavy Haul, Oversized Load Transport & Equipment Hauling

pedowitz.com

* Requires 4 bolts and a plug. Maybe 15 minutes for a rigger to remove.

------------

Just an FYI, but it would seem that you were the one person in the world willing to pay the most for this unit.
Hardly seems like "winning"?

-------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Don't burst me bubble !!

Overland · Sep 10, 2022

Some excellent info so far, thanks.
I've a local rigger up there to load it for me.
I've hold of a nice gooseneck flatbed for the trip and a local wrecker I've used here before will set it in my shop, with his rollback.

So when the current owner blocks the head for me, I'm understanding he needs to set the head well forward for best balance of the load on the trailer, is that right ?

Trying to anticipate as much as possible. I have chains and load binders. Are the tie down points really obvious on this machine, or do I have to make special arrangements?
I obviously don't want to pull down on the sheet metal, just wondering what's there.

Thanks again,
Bob

Ox · Sep 10, 2022

In case it doesn't have good tie down points:

2 years ago I fetched a lathe - just like one that I already have, so I knew what I had to werk with, and there are essentially no tie points anywhere. So I took 6by's the right lengths and I blocked it in.

I put a 6by spacer accrost the front of the machine. Shorter than the overall width (depth in this case) of the machine.
This could be 1 piece, or a cpl of pcs. Doesn't matter, it is just a spacer...

Then I put an 8'er all the way accrost - in front of that, and chained that down hard.
(I will attach a sketch)

Then I had 6bys that I knew were longer than my machine.
They went up to the head board on both sides, and stuck out the back however far - didn't matter.

Then I chained down accrost those, both in front of, and behind the machine.

When done, I had 6by's on 3 sides of the machine, AND I have 2 chains in front of the machine that are also spaced 6" off the deck, and one behind it. So, even if they somehow managed to come a bit loose, and the boards slip a bit, the boards would still be holding the chains in a position that the chain it'self would capture the machine from sliding.

I then put three 4" straps over the top of the machine (over sheet-metal) knowing full well that they were more eye candy than they would ever be a functioning part of the equazsion. I did not overtighten those! (as was warned earlier)

Of course this did not go anywhere, even tho I hit 150 bridge abutments coming accrost Pennsylvania with a gooseneck. (not air ride!) If this comes loose, you've already had a bad day, and this would just be collateral damage at that point.

I have had rigger bring in loads that I'm amazed that they were intact. But those guys haul that stuff every day, but it looks like one panic stop will have the whole load in the sleeper to me... (I've seen a steel coil in the cab already)

If you click the pic a second time - it will open up bigger that you can see the details better.

-------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Overland · Sep 10, 2022

Ox said:
In case it doesn't have good tie down points:

2 years ago I fetched a lathe - just like one that I already have, so I knew what I had to werk with, and there are essentially no tie points anywhere. So I took 6by's the right lengths and I blocked it in.

I put a 6by spacer accrost the front of the machine. Shorter than the overall width (depth in this case) of the machine.
This could be 1 piece, or a cpl of pcs. Doesn't matter, it is just a spacer...

Then I put an 8'er all the way accrost - in front of that, and chained that down hard.
(I will attach a sketch)

Then I had 6bys that I knew were longer than my machine.
They went up to the head board on both sides, and stuck out the back however far - didn't matter.

Then I chained down accrost those, both in front of, and behind the machine.

When done, I had 6by's on 3 sides of the machine, AND I have 2 chains in front of the machine that are also spaced 6" off the deck, and one behind it. So, even if they somehow managed to come a bit loose, and the boards slip a bit, the boards would still be holding the chains in a position that the chain it'self would capture the machine from sliding.

I then put three 4" straps over the top of the machine (over sheet-metal) knowing full well that they were more eye candy than they would ever be a functioning part of the equazsion. I did not overtighten those! (as was warned earlier)

Of course this did not go anywhere, even tho I hit 150 bridge abutments coming accrost Pennsylvania with a gooseneck. (not air ride!) If this comes loose, you've already had a bad day, and this would just be collateral damage at that point.

I have had rigger bring in loads that I'm amazed that they were intact. But those guys haul that stuff every day, but it looks like one panic stop will have the whole load in the sleeper to me... (I've seen a steel coil in the cab already)

If you click the pic a second time - it will open up bigger that you can see the details better.

-------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Excellent !
I've done similar by nailing 2x6 around base of BP clones and then chained it higher up.

So the 6x6's are held in place by the chains, and they stop the machine from moving.
Got it.
Thanks

Garwood · Sep 10, 2022

If the machine has no tie down points, whatcha do is hook the tops of the leveling bolts with short wire rope lifting slings. Four 3/8" rope x 12" long slings work pretty good. Then you hook the slings with open hook chains.

Most machines have open webbing underneath that's easy to sling a chain through. Most machines have machined pads on them with large threads for screw in eyebolts or a couple large bolts to attach a plate that would have a tie down point. This is how they were intended to be shipped, but those bits are never with the machine.

Make sure your trailer deck is up for this. VMC's have a small footprint VS their weight.

I just bent the shit out of the deck crossmembers on one of my trailers hauling a little 8500 lb stamping press 200 miles.

Overland · Sep 10, 2022

Some really good points there, Garwood, thanks.
I have lots of 2x material, so I can probably let the machine sit on a bigger area of the casting, rather just the regular feet.
Bob

Garwood · Sep 10, 2022

Overland said:
Some really good points there, Garwood, thanks.
I have lots of 2x material, so I can probably let the machine sit on a bigger area of the casting, rather just the regular feet.
Bob

The machine has no feet. It will have jacking bolts. Those sit on pads. You won't be using the pads on the trailer. Those will just sink into your dunnage.

The problem is the base of the machine is only 4 feet by 6 feet or so. If your trailer has 3" channel crossmembers every 2 feet with wood on top you might be supporting a lot of weight on not much framework.

All depends on the trailer design. Look at the trailer and imagine setting a 12,000 lb 10 foot tall pallet on the trailer- How will the deck/frame handle that?

Ox · Sep 10, 2022

Yeah, I wouldn't want it setting on feet on your deck.

If you retract the adjusters all the way up (and the pads tossed in the truck) will it set on the deck?
Maybe with 2by's?

Per Garwood's post:
Are you running tandem duals?
Or trippples like mine?
or ???

-----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Overland · Sep 10, 2022

Got it guys.
The main frame of the trailer is exposed at the same level as the boards. So the 3" cross members are welded to the sides of the frame.
If I add another layer of 2x's, most of the weight will be directly on the main frame.
Thanks.
Bob

Garwood · Sep 10, 2022

Overland said:
Got it guys.
The main frame of the trailer is exposed at the same level as the boards. So the 3" cross members are welded to the sides of the frame.
If I add another layer of 2x's, most of the weight will be directly on the main frame.
Thanks.
Bob

That sounds like a worker. Good plan.

I just won an auction for a Mazak VTC-20B up in Detroit - lots of questions

Hot Rolled

Stainless

Titanium

Hot Rolled

Stainless

Stainless

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Diamond