1 Ton Long Wheelbase Dually Flatbed Pickup vs Machine Height/Size/Weight

Question –

At what machine height/size/weight point would forum members consider a 'stout' 1 Ton flatbed pickup truck inappropriate?

Background & Details –

Let's leave licensing and registration issues aside in this thread: I'm ONLY interested in the physical aspects of machinery carrying.

The manufacturers of post 2000, 1-Ton, long wheelbase, dually, pickup trucks have configurations that include –

12,000 lb to 15,000 lb GVWR

10,000 lb to 12,500 lb rear suspensions

5,000 lb to 7,000 lb front suspensions

3,195/3,085 lb (for commercial 16 inch tires) load capacities (this can be much higher with 17/18/19.5 inch tires)

Most of these 1-Ton trucks, fitted with a 9 foot flatbed, weigh around 8,000 lbs (WITH the bed) when empty (but full of fuel).

That leaves 4,000 lbs to 7,000 lbs of OEM 'warranty compatible' load carrying capacity for certain 1-Ton pickup trucks.

However; carrying 50 to 88 bags of cement is MUCH different than carrying 9 foot tall 4,000 lb to 7,000 lb machine tools.

Vehicle dynamics DO matter, and I don't believe the auto industry uses lower 'factors of safety' than the 1.5 used by the FAA.

My 1-Ton long wheelbase dually truck, 'tagged' at 14,000 lbs (with 18,730 lbs of 'sidewall rated' tires under it) weighs 8,060 lbs.

It yawns a carrying 7,200 lbs (i.e. a 1,260 lb overload) of concrete retaining wall blocks 70 miles – but these are only 2 feet tall.

It also laughs at 1-ton loads on the bumper to bumper ladder rack; but this fully distributed load is only 4 feet above the bed.

A Summit 3H radial arm drill (3,500 lb) on an F-350 dually flatbed was pictured on the internet – no idea how far it was hauled.

One trucking forum has many pictures of a 13,000 lb excavator ON a 19,500 lb GVWR F-550 – owner says he carries it 150 miles.

So; would forum members feel safe carrying a 6,000 lb radial arm drill in a 14,000 lb GVWR 1-Ton truck that weighed 8,060 lbs?

If not, why? Are 1-Ton trucks just an inappropriate platform for hauling tall/heavy loads, when loaded right up to their GVWR?

P.S.

Yes; I have trailers (the largest suitable for machinery moving being a 22+3 foot, 21,500 lb, Tri-Axle, Trail King). Nice trailer.

No; don't like towing trailers unless ABSOLUTELY essential (and if my truck can carry something safely I'm loathe to use a trailer).

Note: all of this is STRICTLY for private use – there are NO commercial licensing/registration/inspection implications whatsoever!

6k lb radial on the bed ?
No way.
use the trailer, even with the "Loathing".....

BTW where are you in "western PA" ?

At or below tire ratings on the highway.

I have hauled 10k distributed on the bed of a SRW superduty F350 short distance.

Tallest I hauled was a 65 ton Verson press brake. About 4k lbs. She was a little leany in the corners.

99-07 superduty frame is wimpy compared to 08-16 frame. Big difference.

SRW and DRW F-350 are the same exact truck, just different tires.

I have hauled a 4500lb rambaudi vertical mill on the back of my f450 (16k truck weighing 8900, with 12ft flatbed), but that is about the max I would want to do. I have carried more weight for sure, but not something that had that much weight up in the air. I would take a trailer for this.

A RAD is about the most top heavy machine in the shop. If you do indeed try, please have someone follow with a dash cam so we can see the wreck.

Yup ^^^ and if it falls off, the truck is trashed too.

Innocent victims could be involved as well.

Equipment trailer frame is heavy enough to cinch down chains. Steel flatbed on a pickup frame is not.

Use a trailer, it's safer and easier to load and unload being closer to the ground. I had someone buy a Bridgeport M head mill from me. He showed up with an old 1980's Ford F100. He wanted me to help him load it. I told him no, I was not going to be responsible for anything happening to the truck or machine due to the overload. It was on a heavy pallet, he brought a pallet jack. He backed up to the loading dock and loaded it in and strapped it down with four HF 1" ratchet straps to the bed rails. The frame was down on the axle and the tires were flattening. I watched him go out the drive and onto the street at about 5mph, lots of sway. Fortunately he brought cash and paid me before loading. I guess he made it home OK as I didn't hear about any accidents.

Something that top heavy and at or near max GVWR is not a good combination. It could be fine if everything goes smoothly, or you could kill someone, or yourself if not. I'd use your trailer instead; much lower chance of it joining you in the cab on a quick stop or rolling you over if you need to change lanes suddenly.

Just curious. How is the name "1 Ton" applicable to the vehicles described above? The descriptions indicate they are rated more like 2 Ton in terms of available load rating.

In the 1970's, I once tried to load one of our small vehicles to "rated load" for a test. No problem putting iron weights in behind the seats to get sufficient load on the rear axle. But I had to have the shop cut and drill a massive square steel bar and bolt it to the front bumper mounts to get enough load on the front axle to get to the gross vehicle weight rating with a driver in place. We then noted that the springs were all bottomed out and called the whole test off. As I recall, the Federal emissions law was more generous for vehicles above some arbitrary GVWR, so I think that was why the GVWR on that line of product got rated rather optimistically. Not long after, the company simply discontinued the small vehicles.

Buried in that tale is a moral. If you subtract vehicle weight from GVWR, do not assume you can put all of the calculated allowable load in the back of the vehicle.

Larry

Way too easy to use a trailer and do this right instead of sketchy. Loading and unloading alone will be so much better and safer.

You’re going to spend x amount of money on a truck? Why not just get a mover for the top heavy bits like a radial drill, and a trailer for everything else? Cheaper. Safer.

Having driven light pickups, 2 tons, big rigs, etc with overly heavy loads at differing heights, I can say I would rather have that high center of gravity machine on a trailer so that my steer tires loading don't shift left to right during that moment some crazy person suddenly swings hard toward my front fender.

99 percent of the time it works great by just driving carefully. its that tiny chance that bothers me.

I use trailers for anything over a ton. Especially top heavy ones!


Just my $0.002

Edit;

I moved a 14,000 lb radial drill on a 14000 lb capable trailer and it was still a bit nerve wracking at times ( got cut off by an 18 wheeler making a turn from the oncoming direction and missed his trailer by inches, and long black marks)

Pickup trucks have not been manufacturer rated by the ton since the late 1920's. It also depends on the mountain slope and curves. I assume you have some hills in Pennsylvania.
Bill D

My Responses

Firstly, many thanks to all the forum members who took the time to respond.

Reading the comments has caused me to think about modifications I hadn't pondered previously.

One comment in this thread will lead to an upgrade: installing trailer jacks at all 4 corners of the flatbed for loading stability.

I especially appreciate the comments with first hand experiences listing the weights, machines being carried, and trucks used.


About MY 1-Ton Truck –

To get a 1-Ton truck configured REMOTELY as well as mine is you would have to build it yourself, or pay someone to build it.

I've strengthened the bed and frame, upgraded the brakes and powertrain, installed 5500 class springs, and fitted BIG Timbrens.

This entailed – body off the frame / bed on a 360 degree rotating spit / axles held in jigs for welding / etc. A WHOLE LOT of work.

The OEM 15,240 lb 'sidewall rated' tires have been replaced with 18,730 lb 'sidewall rated' tires on 3,500 lb rated rims.

It has: an exhaust brake / 2" Ø rear & 1-3/4" Ø front sway bars / rotating (dual chain) tie downs / triangulated headboard.


My general comments –

The commonly held view is that carrying heavy loads, especially those that are top heavy, is a safer activity with a trailer.

However, does this commonly held view have a verifiable basis in fact, or is it supported only anecdotally?

There are 3 main domestic manufacturers (Chevrolet/GM, Dodge/RAM, and Ford) of 10,000 lb to 20,000 lb GVWR trucks.

All of their vehicles have to comply with a plethora of IDENTICAL safety tests, and at least roughly similar licensing requirements.

So, from a usage perspective, all must be equally road worthy (and substantially identical from an engineering perspective).

If the OEMs stipulate it is safe (by way of information in their numerous Body Builder Manuals) to haul something like a 6,000 lb radial arm drill on CERTAIN 1-Ton trucks, there is NO way that such usage should inherently be unsafe (with THOSE trucks).

Hauling a radial arm drill (or any other supposed top heavy object) on ANY truck raises the issue of the center of gravity height.

The MAIN reference to center of gravity heights you find in most OEM Body Builder Manuals concerns carrying slide in campers.

And there are LOTS of these out there that weigh more than 5,000 lbs 'wet' (i.e. fully loaded). Have you seen the size of these?

Granted, slide in campers aren't nearly as popular as they once were: people now want to tow their house behind them!

The manufacturers of such size campers say a 350/3500 truck is fine. So most owners put them on UNMODIFIED 350s/3500s.

If these behemoths were that unsafe to use the courts and/or legislatures would step in. Have any done so? Not that I know of.

How many families have been wiped out in accidents caused by the owners of such campers? My guess is few, if in fact any.


To all who intimated that a 6,000 lb radial arm drill was too much load for an 8,000 lb truck –

Try as I might, I'm unable to see how the proverbial 2+2 = 4 adds up in this instance.

We bought 2 more pieces of heavy equipment in the past couple of years: a 20,000 lb excavator and a 15,000 lb telehandler.

Both were transported over 500 miles on single axle, sleeper cab, Medium Duty, Freightliner MDX trucks (11,000 lbs. +/- empty).

The excavator weighed almost TWICE what the truck that carried it over 500 miles on the US Interstate system did. TWICE!

So why then, is carrying a 6,000 lb radial arm drill on my 8,060 lb 1-Ton truck unsafe? This load is just 75% of the trucks' weight.

Where is the engineering/physics/science that backs up such assumptions/statements?

Conversely, where is the engineering/physics/science that shows it is safe to carry a 20,000 lb excavator on an 11,000 lb truck?

Where is the center of gravity of a radial arm drill with the arm lowered? Middle of the arm? Bottom of the head? Top of the base?

The center of gravity of a 20,000 lb excavator being transported is higher than a 6,000 lb radial arm drill with the arm lowered.

An 8,000 lb truck carrying a 6,000 lb radial arm drill would be LESS stressed than an 11,000 lb truck carrying a 20,000 lb excavator.

If I was more of a conspiracy theorist I might opine that this is all a job protection scheme concocted by the Teamsters Union.


Regarding Trailer vs Truck Construction –

As far as I can determine, trailers for private use in America are largely unregulated regarding constructional requirements.

When you look at enough trailers you realize there are widely different viewpoints on what constitutes a 'safe product'.

The majority of non-commercial trailers are designed down to a price point, rather than to up to a quality standard.

And don't get me going about the welding on most trailers! I doubt much (any?) of it would pass AWS or ASME test protocols.

Watching trailers 'do their thing' when I'm driving down the road reminds me of the 1950's song "Shake, Rattle and Roll".

I bought my Trail King trailer because: (1) it was smoking cheap, and (2) my 1-Ton truck can't carry an 18,000 lb radial arm drill.

Does my 21,500 lb Trail King trailer have a 'bigger' frame than my 1-Ton truck? Yes.

Is it any stronger? No! But I have extensively stiffened and strengthened the frame of MY 1-Ton truck.

I also have a 10,000 lb Corn Pro equipment trailer; on which, when you tighten down chain binders, the side rails twist!


DDoug – we have two pre 1800 farms in western PA : one in Beaver County (1785) and one in Crawford County (1794).


Garwood – you said "99-07 superduty frame is wimpy compared to 08-16 frame. Big difference."

What leads you to conclude this?

Ford BBA publications that I can access don't lead me to think there are ANY overall strength differences between these frames.

And, on various other forums, supposed ex-FoMoCo employees/engineers have repeatedly stated that this is simply a perception by the public, due to the change from leaf springs to coil springs in the front suspension (and the subsequent frame boxing that this required), and the changed method of frame production (processes used and manor of assembly). And they also say dealerships fuel this myth because they need customers to believe the current generation of Ford trucks are VASTLY superior to their predecessors.

I've measured lots of Ford SuperDuty truck frames with calipers and I've found NO significant material thickness or RBM differences in any of the SuperDuty frames – yes the 450/550 frames are thicker and larger sectioned than the 250/350 frames across the board.


L Vanice –

The 1-Ton truck of today is NOT your father's 1-Ton truck!

EVERY OEM in 2023 offers a 1-Ton truck model with a GVWR of over 12,000 lbs.

As these current 1-Ton trucks weigh around 8,000 lbs, their carrying capacity is 4,000 lbs.

It is due to historical naming conventions that these 2-Ton actual carrying capacity trucks are still being called 1-Ton trucks.

And, from 1991 to 2002 you could purchase a 15,000 lb GVWR 1-Ton truck from Chevrolet/GM: the C3500HD.

This 1-Ton truck had a somewhat beefier frame and weighed around 9,000 lbs (with a body), so it had a 6,000 lb carrying capacity.

In every regard that matters, MY 1-Ton truck is the equal of (and is actually SUPERIOR to) this 15,000 lb GVWR 1-Ton truck.


hvnlymachining –

What vehicle (brand/model/year) were you towing the 14,000 lb radial drill with?

I assume the trailer itself weighed around 4,000 lbs, correct?

Was the trailer bumper pull or 5th wheel/gooseneck?

VERY interesting comment about steer tire loading – I will have to look into this further.

I know the University of Michigan has studied trailer dynamics (both single 'semi' trailers and 'semi' trailers with 'dog' trailers).

Your long diatribe answer shows me you had no intention of asking for information, rather, you wanted something else.

Crawford county is getting mighty close, post your schedule so I can avoid this overload at all cost's.

I might have missed it but is the RAD standing or lying* down? Big difference.


*if it's laying down, learn how to talk gooder

sae8425 said:

About MY 1-Ton Truck –

To get a 1-Ton truck configured REMOTELY as well as mine is you would have to build it yourself, or pay someone to build it.

I've strengthened the bed and frame, upgraded the brakes and powertrain, installed 5500 class springs, and fitted BIG Timbrens.

This entailed – body off the frame / bed on a 360 degree rotating spit / axles held in jigs for welding / etc. A WHOLE LOT of work.

The OEM 15,240 lb 'sidewall rated' tires have been replaced with 18,730 lb 'sidewall rated' tires on 3,500 lb rated rims.

Click to expand...

So what you are saying is you have rims rated for 14,000 combined, yet the tires were upgraded to 18K total? so its still only as strong as the weakest part.......

sae8425 said:

My general comments –

The commonly held view is that carrying heavy loads, especially those that are top heavy, is a safer activity with a trailer.

Click to expand...

yes it is, why, because the weight of the load on a trailer pushes down on the axles of the truck and trailer and the load is balanced. you can also run tie downs further away to keep the leverage factor down. Tying something that is top heavy down right beside it doesnt give it much sideways pull as compared to if you can tie it down 8-10 ft away from the base and have the tie downs at a 45 to the machine. Also the lower trailer makes it safer to load. One more thing to concider is trucks are rated for even distributed loads, not all the weight in one spot which stresses the frame, and most tend to rear load machines which also pulls the front axle weights up and transfers it to the rear and loosing traction in the process. If the OEMs stipulate it is safe (by way of information in their numerous Body Builder Manuals) to haul something like a 6,000 lb radial arm drill on CERTAIN 1-Ton trucks, there is NO way that such usage should inherently be unsafe (with THOSE trucks).

sae8425 said:

Hauling a radial arm drill (or any other supposed top heavy object) on ANY truck raises the issue of the center of gravity height.
The MAIN reference to center of gravity heights you find in most OEM Body Builder Manuals concerns carrying slide in campers.
And there are LOTS of these out there that weigh more than 5,000 lbs 'wet' (i.e. fully loaded). Have you seen the size of these?

Click to expand...

yep, but they are evenly distributed, not 6000 lbs in 4 sq ft, it covers the whole bed and then some sticking over the sides.

sae8425 said:

To all who intimated that a 6,000 lb radial arm drill was too much load for an 8,000 lb truck –

Click to expand...

so lets do a little math, what is 8000# plus 6000# approx ? about 14K lbs, whats your rims rated at? 14k, and i would be safe to assume that since its rear loaded, the axles would be at or over max capacity due to weight transfer.
btw 2500 trucks weigh normally 7700lbs, 3500DRW weigh in the 9000# range.... so right there you are well over 14K. gvwr doesn't mean crap all when you snap wheel studs off.

sae8425 said:

We bought 2 more pieces of heavy equipment in the past couple of years: a 20,000 lb excavator and a 15,000 lb telehandler.

Both were transported over 500 miles on single axle, sleeper cab, Medium Duty, Freightliner MDX trucks (11,000 lbs. +/- empty).

The excavator weighed almost TWICE what the truck that carried it over 500 miles on the US Interstate system did. TWICE!

Click to expand...

Just because you did it, doesn't mean it was right, bearing life is shortened due to overloading, how can you inspect that?

sae8425 said:

As far as I can determine, trailers for private use in America are largely unregulated regarding constructional requirements.

Click to expand...

no need for regulatons when there are engineers that design them.... if it breaks, 99% its user error(overloading)

sae8425 said:

The majority of non-commercial trailers are designed down to a price point, rather than to up to a quality standard.

Click to expand...

not price point driven, its all weight vs capacity, why add more material if its not needed? all it does is add weight and cost more $ for no substancial gain.

sae8425 said:

Is it any stronger? No! But I have extensively stiffened and strengthened the frame of MY 1-Ton truck.

Click to expand...

your trailer is designed to flex, and im sure welding on your truck frame really didn't help it, there are reasons why you don't weld on truck frames. why you ask, because when you weld it anneals the spots right beside it, and if it wasn't designed to have that soft spot the frame will flex there more then others and break. you basically screwed up your truck by welding on it....... yet you don't even know it.

I once sold an old ironworker ,heavy and 8" high with two big flywheels on a top mounted gearbox........buyer sent a 4 ton truck to pick it up....I loaded it with the crane ,and the truckie chained it ...it was a very unstable load.........anyhoo,going out over the gutter at an angle ,I see about a foot of daylight between the duals and the road .......it was delivered safely some 50 miles away...........big presses are the same with big flywheels mounted up high.

Not sure why you bothered asking.